[Hit n Run]

Anyone have any sort of opinion on biting, whether it should/should not be done, whether it restricts the dance. when it is ok/not ok to bite (e.g. with permission of the popper who first made the move) or even whether videotaping a popper for the use of furthering your own dance is wrong (yes i bit that last one from bboy.com), and whether u as a noobie could have had the patience to learn styles as opposed to biting moves that "look good".

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i would have thought that most if not ALL poppers have some sort of view on biting.

let yours be known.

Hit n Run

[Poppin Smurf]

yeah i think bitin/bootleginz ok if ur a newbie and u use them as foundation then start makin ur own shyt or ya u ask the creata to set u up or the move is jus off the chain eg Wiggles Walk that i jus had 2!! But recordin anotha popper n bitin i dont think thats a good idea but

ORIGINALITY IS THE KEY!!!!!!!!!

Dance 2 xpress not 2 impress

[B LeVe]

in the beginning.... if you don't bite... you starve. haha. I read that off the wiggs site a while back.

If someone teaches you a signature move that they do, then its not biting if you do it since it has been passed on to you by someone else at their consent.

Biting is taking someone else's move/style and claiming it as your own. TRY not to do it, but for the first year, you should get some leeway since, after all, you would be a newb.

The wiggs walk is essentially almost universal (he breaks it down in his video) so I mean... if you do it, it's not all that bad. But it's not all that great either. I mean... it was his thing first after all. Props go to originality and style, not how well you can imitate someone else's dance.

[Hit n Run]

i think that it's ok to use a move if the guy who created it gives you specific permission to use it.

i'm glad to hear

The wiggs walk is essentially almost universal (he breaks it down in his video) so I mean... if you do it, it's not all that bad. But it's not all that great either.

not because of this move specifically, but that if somebody puts an "instructional video" out teaching moves etc. and one of those moves is a signiature move, then surely he is encouraging biting of that move?

i also believe in creativity, and not becoming a relentless unoriginal dancer who steals the personalities of other dancers in the form of stealing their best moves.

as for videotaping, i don't have a problem with it so long as the popper being taped doesn't disagree with it.

i'm not promoting biting via videotaping at all, but it does allow people who have never seen poppers in person to get a "feel" for the dance; an opportunity to see how far it can and has gone. i know that if it wasn't for clips on the internet of famous poppers, i would have had NO chance of learning popping (coming from an area of the world where there are so few good poppers). i would have lost motivation for the dance or just progressed a lot more slowly. videotaping brings the dance to folk like me who live 1000s of miles away from the major comps.

i know that when i was a fresh noob i would never have had the patience to learn styles as opposed to bite moves. as a noobie biting allows the person to see results quickly and thus provides the motivation to get over the hurdle of "am i capable of dancing?". hopefully these noobs later change their ways as they begin to understand the dance to create there own moves and their own twist on styles as opposed to restrict the dance by becoming clones of good dancers.

The above script is my current opinion, it is not set in stone. i am open to other opinions on this thread.

Hit n Run

[Poppin Smurf]

yeah gud lookin out!!!!

nice 2 feel sum positive energy on the site 4 a while!!!

dont flip on me now B Leve!!

[waveOmatic]

whats up ya'll, havent posted here in a minute. Thought I'd share my thoughts on the subject, its been one of those subjects thats been talked about since I got into the artform a long ass time ago.

See, when I first started, not many styles where out and the ones that were werent known to much. I'm from LA and back when I got into it, in 79, cats here where mostly doing the robot. sooner than later, other styles surfaced. These styles were fairly new back then, so foundations weren't set in stone like today. Everyone started with the basics, which now we call foundations, depending on what style you were into. These basics were(like and arm wave or fresno) never considered biting, but stepping stones to finding your own "style".

People here started adding to their style, developing moves and executing them in their own way. Thats when "biting" became a big deal, 'cause cats started doing other ppls moves especially during battles. Sure it was and still is possible to create a move simular to someone else and not knowing that someone else had made it up or never have seen it before. But when it was EXECUTED the same way, it was most likely a clear bite. And that doesnt just mean moves, whole routines were bit too. And remember, this was before clips, vids, and the internet, so it was taken much more to the heart when it happend, cats have lost their lives over shit like that and I'm not even exagerating.

You got more respect if you did your own thing, if you jumped in a circle and looked just like the cat that was in it before, you got hated on right away. Back then the crowd was the judges, and they would let you have it, no easy props. You had to use your creativity and innovate new things that others werent doing, or new ways of doing something that was already being done, or you got no respect. This mentality was also responsible for new styles comming to the table, because cats where CREATING and being CREATIVE, like tutting for example. I rember when no one tutted, it wasnt out there yet, then because it was dope, ppl started tutting and taking it to other levels. Same with other styles. If you went out and busted the same exact tuts as someone else, no originality involved, you were called a biter.

When was the last time a new style was created? When was the last time a style was pushed to new limits? I'm sure it happens, like my homies skywalker and elsewhere have raised the bar on waving, my really good homie tetris has been creating his own tuts, and there are others. Compared to back then, not many ppl are creating(or being creative) now. It's also a shame that many that are comming original are getting hated on because they are not doing the "in" style. Instead of respecting them for their originality, they are told they are not "poppers". Funny thing is, I dont even think they care about labels, but there is one label you can never call them, YOU CAN NEVER CALL THEM BITERS.

Foundation is not biting, but once you learned foundation, where do you go? I see cats that have already learned foundations and they still lool like they are doing exactly what a 100 other "poppers" are doing. Where is the originality? To me and a grip of other old schoolers, if you look like your doing the same ole shit, your past foundation, your not comming original, then your probably biting. You cant hide under the "thats foundation, foundation isnt biting" blanket for too too long.

Others might disagree, but if you can't express yourself with your dance then you are expressing someone else. If you are a student of that person, then cool, I'm sure they dont mind, but that doesnt mean you cant come original. If you learned a move from a video and you are doing the exact same shit, try changing it up a bit and put your own touch to it, you dont have to create all new moves, but interpret them and execute them your own way. Thats not biting, thats called being inspired by something you saw. Nothing wrong with that.

If you can create something entirely "new", then thats really dope, but you dont have to create "new" things to be original. You can take something that already exists and build on it YOUR OWN WAY. Thats not biting. Creating is not entirely the same as being creative.

If your new to the dance, foundation is important. Once you get it down, take it where you want to go. This dance was our identity, our unique identity, like a fingerprint. If you want to learn someones signature move, go for it, it might inspire you to do something else with it, just dont bring it in a battle carbon copied, heheh.

If your not sure if a certian move is "bitting", ask about it. There are very knowledgable heads on the internet, do some research. My advice would be to add your own shit to it, do it your own way. It's alot more fun when its "yours", trust me on that, and you get much more respect for it.

props to anyone that read all that shit, haha, its 6 45 in the morning and my brain is begging for sleep, heheh.

Peace and much Respect
Wave~O~Matic

[Poppin Smurf]

aaaahhh tyt!!!

oh my is this the wav0matic??

aaahhhh i got 2 holla at a moderata n tell him 2 change ur New Member to OG!! ha ha

[B LeVe]

got a lil bored there wave-o? haha.

There isn't really a clear line between "biting" and "being inspired" sometimes. I mean... if I do Tetris' behind-the-back-rectangle thingy (which I do happen to do) then am I "biting" or was I "inspired"? haha. To me, it seems silly to nitpick over what ppl do and to see if they are biting. If someone copies an entire tutting set, then of course that's biting. If someone copies a paticular transition from that set and uses it in their own sets, is that biting? Even if that transition may be something that noone else has done? Or let us say I start doing a lot of complex threads like Midus. Maybe I don't do the same threads as he does but am I "biting" his style? or am I "inspired" by it?

something to think about.

[Hit n Run]

Thanks for taking the time to share Wave~O.

If someone copies a paticular transition from that set and uses it in their own sets, is that biting? Even if that transition may be something that noone else has done?

In my opinion that wouldn't be biting. i would consider that twisting a move to make it your own; if the transition has never been done before then surely that comes under the innovating category without necessary creating from scratch.(?)

So when does a move fall under (or move to) the foundation category (e.g Boogaloo Sam's twistos becoming part of boog foundation) rather than a move becoming repeatedly bitten?

Does a move become foundation only when it's socially acceptable and thus universally used?

Or let us say I start doing a lot of complex threads like Midus. Maybe I don't do the same threads as he does but am I "biting" his style? or am I "inspired" by it?

Surely acceptance within the community is the key to whether you're biting his style or are inspired?...the masses decide; not any 1 individual.

Hit n Run

good stuff wave-o

It annoyed me when buddha stretch was hating on detours for not being "poppers" and not dancing to the beat on wiggles site...

I would never chalenge someone on a site like that being inferior in skill age and knowledge because it would be a straight diss to his elderhood in the game. but at least there are others out there who think alogn the same line I do.

[Mowicz]

If any of this has been stated, I appologize.......I'm short on time, so I jus skimmed through the previous posts. I gotta read 'em in depth later.


"Biting" is, in a sense the lifeblood of popping. As was said, biting is the only way to learn the fundamentals, and even to advance from there.

Since there are very few not-well known styles, then what's to be considered a bite? Is someone wanting to learn tuts a bite? Nah man, everyone does it. Not to mention, tutting wasn't 'invented' by any single person. Someone did it, then other improved upon it. Same's true with strobes....no single person can get mad if someone learns to strobe.

The only REAL bite is therefore, would be an unknown style.....but even then, what if there's consent? For example, say someone makes a style, then they teach it to someone......that's nice and legal.....or say someone copies their style, but credits them (IE. Propz to so-and-so!).....it would depend on the creater's attitude. Same with if someone copies it and DOESN'T give them credit. Like around here, there are very few non-ravers......I guess you could say I was like the first hip-hop style popper around here. Now there's about 5, 1 of which completely copied a "routine" of mine, that I created to help myself learn (More of an 'exercise' kinda thing....) I felt flattered that I influenced the guy, y'know? But someone ELSE might've got offended or something.

In a way, you could technically bite yourself....and before you say I'm trippin', bear with me. Biting, isn't easily defined. But, you could say it's copying someone else's moves.....so if you keep doin' a routine, and it gets known to be a routine, you'll still get disrespect.....Personally, I'd dislike the fact that someone did a routine about the same as I'd dislike the fact that someone stole someone else's moves, since doing 1 routine over and over makes ALL poppers look bad.

I got more to add, but I gotta bounce for now......I'm hopin' to finish up tonight.

Peace.

[GliderzEdge]

Theres definitely nothing wrong with remixing a move into ur own style. This is a means of exploring new ideas that havent been dicovered before aka creativity.

But when it comes to biting, more often than usual a biten move never turns out exactly like the original. Whether it turns out better or worse, its still biten!

Well I fell victim to a biter awhile ago on this very board. I posted a clip which had this tickin move I did. Not long afterwards, these 2 poppers post their own vids (cant remember who they are.. but they had blue shirts in their vid) one of them totally bit my ticking combo. i was ticked off (no pun intended) cause I put so much work and energy into coming up with it. Thing is that he didnt exactly execute it the same (cause he lacked isolation). My point is... I know this was biting but maybe if some others saw it, possibly they would say otherwise since it looked kinda different (crappier ). My Q, how do we distinguish between something biten-cheaply executed-looks different and wats been inspired?

peace yall

[Chinkzilla]

I'm new to this board relatively.. I've been dancing, bboyin at first and popping mostly, for 8 years or so. When i first started all I did was bite. But growing up in a very competitive environment for poppers I very soon had to find my own originality and creativity to survive battles. Biting can only get you so far, so why not let people do it and not complain? The way I look at it, is that if you're creative enough you'll ALWAYS be coming out with new stuff. The trick is to come up with stuff faster than people can bite it. Then you got nothing to worry about. Dancing is an act of sharing yourself with the world. If you're going to be selfish, make sure no one's watching.

Continual creativity is the key, people can't read your mind and see what you're working on. You NEVER hear people like pete and wiggles complaining about biting. That's cause no one can ever match their originality, and if they do copy or learn from them then it's only a tribute to their creativity.

Just my 2 cents

peace

[GliderzEdge]

Good point!

We just gotta face it, everythings bound to be biten sooner or later by at least 1 individual. Well we just gotta live with it I guess, no matter how much it may bother us lol.

I guess depending on the circumstances, biting may or may not be such an important issue.

[Poppin Smurf]

Originally posted by GliderzEdge Good point! We just gotta face it, everythings bound to be biten sooner or later by at least 1 individual. Well we just gotta live with it I guess, no matter how much it may bother us lol. I guess depending on the circumstances, biting may or may not be such an important issue.

yeah no doubt!!! thats y u gotta keep up wit new shyt!!!

and if some one bites ur shyt atleast its recognitn that ur shyt is dope!!!!! and between u n the biter u kno u can ride them so they wont try fuk wit ur movementz!!