[LuNar_SouL]

Yo All
I Heard from alot of Advanced bboys that i have to " dislocate " my arms or shoulders to be able to do hand stand moves more smoothley like Inverts and that stuff , and maybe the meaning of dislocating is wrong , they told me to hold my arms shoulder hight and hold a rope or something like dat with my hands from the behing and begin to push hard so that my shoulders gets more backward every day so that i'll be able after all to be able to hold my hands from the back and grab it back to the front from above of my head . ( need some imagination if u haven't see it b4 )
but a doctor told me that alot of flexibilty in shoulders to the level may make my shoulder dislocate by them selves like u know like fallin down from their socket and i have to get them back to their places and it may come to permeanent Dislocation
SO Plz I ask any1 who knows about this to give me advices about this and wat shall i do
Thnx in advance

[Mogwai]

WTF?

They MUST have meant stretching your shoulders - i think its also called strench. (yes, strench, stretch and strength combined)

I am the shoulder guru. BBoying is not my speciality, just a pastime.

I have had hypermobile shoulders since 1999 after a bad crash skateboarding. My shoulder popped out, hit me on the chin and knocked me clean out for 10 seconds.

Its taken 5 years to repair without getting "the operation" where they scrape all the muscles off your shoulder bone, shorten the ligaments/tendons, then staple the muscle back onto the bone. Then 2 months later they go back in to get the staples out. you are only left with 80 to 90% mobility after that.

needles to say i wanted to avoid that.

There are three terms you don't want anything to do with:

Subluxation: this is where my shoulders are at. when the shoulder "dislocates" it doesn't lock out of the "socket", it pings right back into again. It hurts. This is bad.

Dislocation: this is when your shoulder pops out, and around the "socket" (although there really isnt one-its tensile muscle limbo), locking into a totally unnatural position. The arm needs to be pulled out an inch or so to pop it back into the right position.
It hurts. This is bad.

Hypermobility: this is when the muscles/ligaments are stretched too far, and dont put enough pressure on the bone to keep it in the "socket". At its worst my shoulder would pop out pulling open the fridge door/sneezing/coughing/turning over in bed.

what these people meant was building strength in your shoulders, so they can support weight right to the point before they would normally dislocate, and perhaps, in somecases even further. (Strench)

You CAN dislocate your shoulder without damaging it. I know the movement you were referring to, and they are (partially) right.
In order to do this you build up strench.
Escape artists do this to get out of straitjackets.

I only know this because of my condition - i can still do handstands etc. but its taken a solid year of gentle work and easy training to get there. This time last year i couldnt do a handstand.

i have one suggestion - TALK TO A PROFESSIONAL SPORTS PHYSIO - DO NOT ACCEPT SUGGESTIONS FROM RANDOM PEOPLE ON THIS FORUM. INCLUDING ME!

75% of people on this forum do not know enough to advise you.

Get the right advise, however, and you'll be just fine.

btw. Popping your shoulder once or twice is ok if you let it heal and care for it properly (it takes 6 to 8 weeks after a minor pop to achieve reasonable strength again).

I hope this helps
just take care - i dont want to scare you.......and they were probably right but ask someone who really knows........

Mogwai

[LuNar_SouL]

oh man that was really amazing
it really seems that ur accident made u got alot of knoledge about this
anyway i think it was just a diffrence in laungage cuz " disloactation " literaly means being out of location and that wat they said to me
whatever , thnx thnx thnx alot 4 this very valubale info.
but i think it's really hard 4 me to ask a professional sports physio
so i said the best thing 2 do is to ask the people who made this b4
so thnx again and hope that this thread helps me

[Mogwai]

no worries dude - I made some stupid mistakes - not letting them heal and carrying on skating for the last 5 years anyway.....stupid. foolish. I thought it was hardcore at the time.

Always let your shoulders heal. You'll miss them.

anywayz, heavy shit aside, hope you learn from my mistakes, but most of all enjoy your learning experience! ITs all good, and i still dont regret skating at all......the best memories......

and just so you know im not full of shit - i used to be a sponsored sk8er - heres a frieze i made of one of my favourite moves - easy, floaty and pretty shoulder safe. this was filmed 1.5 years ago, with my bad shoulders. You should have seen me fly before......

http://www.bboy.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=26477

peace mogwai......

in reminiscence mode.....

[LuNar_SouL]

nice 1 bro
and btw the way i'm maeking the same here with my left wrist
it's fucked up but wat can i do i can't stop pratcice 4 1 week so wat about 2 mounthes :S
anyway i always try to make moves that don have a chance to hit it
thnx again 4 being so helpfull
and u do break dance too right like skating ?

[Mogwai]

no ive only been bboying since 4 months ago(ish) and i suck - too old to learn now really, im 25.......

I started bboying cos its MUCH easier on the shoulders would you believe - everything can be learnt gently. With skating the only way to learn is throw yourself in and take the slam. No matter how good you get, if you want to progress, you have to take the slam. Its not cool to me anymore, so its not worth it.

its the slams that claim the shoulders........hey ho

time to move on - im mainly learning popping cos ill be able to do that without hurting myself for the rest of my years. I can still see myself popping at 60! im a better popper than breaker......see the callin out bboys 1-2 months thread in online battles and you'll see how wack i am at bboyin. my advice is only based on shoulder knowledge, not bboyin.

I have seen some of the advanced guys at my lessons with shock cord straps doing what those dudes told you to do tho' which is why i posted my opinion.

mogwai

[asian]

hey i was just wondering, one of my shoulders, i can nearly pop it out without pulling on it or nething. like just by itself with my shoulder muscles... ive never tried to realy pop it out, just to an extent where it feels like its starting to com out of the socket.. so if i tried to actully pop it out, cud i dislocate it just using the shoulder muscles in that shoulder? and this is bad rite? even tho i hav sum control over it..?

so would this fit in the "subluxation" category?cos it does kind of "ping" back into place, but it dusn feel like ive dislocated it fully.

[Mogwai]

erm, that sounds like either:

a) you've spent lots of time bboying (doin arm heavy movemnts) and you've developed enough strench to control your shoulder in this situation (which is good) you would probably know if you had done enough of this.

or

b) you've stretched your muscles a little too far and they are not applying enough natural resitance to dislocation, so they can pop out too easy

only you can answer that question.

if its a) start training your shoulders with weights and building up some serious strength and you'll be fine (start holding a baked bean can, moving your arms to a natural resitance point before dislocation in alldirections <> - then when youre ready increase the weight)

if its b) rest for at least 4 weeks, and folow the instructions for a) but REALLY gently

there is also the nasty answer - c)

you've torn your muscles off the bone at some point, and they've healed in the wrong place. thats what i did. you will ultimately need the operation. However if your stubborn like me you can re-build the muscles INCREDIBLY SLOWLY and regain a large proportion ofthat strength back.

PLEASE REMEMBER MY COMMENT ABOUT SEEING A PRO PHYSIO
IF YOU'RE WORRIED GO SEE ONE. THEY REALLY DO KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING. THEY HAVE STUDIED MUSCLE STRUCTURE FOR AT LEAST 2 - 3 YEARS.

I lived in Sandhurst (where Prince Harry is going to do his military time) and I went to see an army field physio - the instructions above are based on his advice. (i also went to an osteopath and an NHS physio - similiar advice - the ostepath said i had a twisted body posture - i assume from skating goofy and landing from heights all the time - my legs were about 45 degrees twisted from my upper body during compression)

Thats all i can tell you.....I'm a bit worried people will take this advice as gospel which it is not. Everything I know comes from my specific condition. There must be a lot more to it.

in the words of Manuel from Fawlty Towers - "I know naaathing"

[Mogwai]

Actually i might make a little vid demonstating the correct exercise to make to repair damaged shoulders - i think it would be invaluable to a lot of people on this forum -

I really shouldnt be doing this but lets be honest - if bboys are anything like skaters then they arent going to see an y fucking physio - right?

"we're harder than that"

lol

that was me 4 years ago...........bad mogwai

[asian]

rite then.. thanks heaps mogwai.
i didnt no u knew so much about .. erm . shoulders.

i guess injuries arnt as bad as i thot. one might gain alot of knowledge from it.. as u did.

btw i saw ur battle vid.. i thnk ur poppin wil develop into sumthin.its looking good (thru my inexperienced eyes) to me...