Graffiti is changing FAST:::DEBATE

talib kweli · **Graffiti is changing FAST:::DEBATE -** 11-02-2003, 10:46 PM

Well today i was talking to my breakdance instructor about graff ...............He said that garff is not the same anymore and that the REAL graffiti artisit are losing there shit. They anit taking there time to do a real burner and such, He said the people who TAG should not class themslefs as graffers because they havnt done a REAL burner they just FUCKING tag .................. he said back in the day if you taged you were the biggest FAG and such because everyone did Burners and took time and effort, because he used to be a realy good garffer ................. so I think that that we should stop tagging and get down and some burners or more bomns etc instead of tags because there are to many taggers and not enuf ppl that take there time garffing in the streets ...................what are your thoughts on this topic
P.s i am not here to change your idea on graff just to inform you on what will or may happen to garffiti it may turn into just tags everywhere but there are peeps who do take time there alot but still there are heaps of taggers out there ????
peace_

GraffitiMachina · 11-02-2003, 11:57 PM

Of course graff changes. BBoying has changes, rap has had changes (for the worse IMO) of course graff will. What will usually happen, if that there will be a bunch of tagger, posers and toys, and in a few years, only the ones who actually appreciate it and want to stick with it will be around. Same thing happened with skateboarding.

Also, less time is being spent on burners because its easier to get caught now. You just saw the thread manila made; there are changes being made, and graff is going to get harder. Even tually, there will be bombings galore until burners begin to come back, just like earlier. Besides, taggers=little chance of being caught. Burners=helluva chance

Oh, and PS. Its not Graffer, its writer. Writing, bombing, or tagging, not graffing.

talib kweli · 11-03-2003, 12:48 AM

yeah i know it is called writing but if some toys come in here they wouldnt have clue what iam saying

GraffitiMachina · 11-03-2003, 01:35 AM

If they dont even understand that, then why do they have a right to reply on how graffiti is changing?

talib kweli · 11-03-2003, 02:24 AM

chill

5EvolElements · 11-03-2003, 04:12 AM

well to tell you the truth i think this debate is all bull shit in my opinion. First off the term burners was used diffrent. From my understanding the term burners came from the early 80's and it was used only for cold steal Mainly subway trains in NY. Burners are top to bottom subway trains so get that clear.. Some how the term bunners came in the way to piecing witch i dont know how and dont understand. All the new cats see beat street and now they think burners are pieces I should know because i was the very one to say these things. People had corrected these words for me.

Now this cat said some pretty strong words coming from the new era of writing. In my opinion its dumb because by the sound of it he doesnt see the progrestion of graff around the world. tagging is part of graff and no doubt about it. it plays a big roll. If it doesnt play a big roll in the game or is a toyish thing then awr,msk,tko,lts,4dc,rtr,gi,gn crews are all toys because these guys do tag alot. Not only these cats got sick pieces riding around but there handstyle are just insane. But if you keep riding tags and dont explore your mind to other concepts of writing then you are a toy. I dont even care if you know the history and know a bunch of shit of graff we would still see you as a toy.

Ok now the progrestion of graffiti just went insane and went to places where no one thought it was possible. people from the east and west push the limits every year. ther reason why alot of people say oh graff is dead or graff aint progressing much. Bull shit because there not making the effort to actualy look for graff then rather what you see in the streets. The truth is out there just got to find it.

Now once again i see people calling people toys. Im not acting like a dick or a straight azz hole but what makes you think you are not a toy. SO far there are only a hand of people in here that are pushing out the toy stage. No one has a right to pin point a person as a toy in here. The only people i can see is fstylz,manilagorila,Kingrens,kombyn,and aeon. These guys payed there dues to the game and rocking harder then all you guys put together.

talib kweli · 11-03-2003, 04:45 AM

Ok dude my bboying teacher came form the very begging of hip pop and man he said it himslef "BURNERS" ok and i think he knows what his saying becuase he knows a lot off ppl ok and he was a Great writing back in the day ok

talib kweli · 11-03-2003, 04:49 AM

Ok man what iam trying to tell you all that ppl(people) who just tag and call themsleves writers should be fucking ashamed and its giving a bad word to da public etc and i do the odd tag but so what i still Try and do burners instead off taggin and calling myslef a writier ??understand

iomek · 11-03-2003, 02:20 PM

i wanna see your paint skills talib, and your bboy instructer, he is probably bull shittin you...

i always thought burners was a term to do somin with trains too, i dunno your a head round here misia so i will take your word

amenologist · 11-03-2003, 02:31 PM

hey talib kweli there's this book called "Subway Art", you should read it

iomek · 11-03-2003, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by amenologist
hey talib kweli there's this book called "Subway Art", you should read it

that book is dope!! ive seen it at my frends house loads and im buyin it soon as he wont lend it to me

F Stylz · 11-03-2003, 03:44 PM

Talib, with something like hip hop it's naive to listen to what one person says and take it as gospel. That's dumb. Who cares if your "breakdance instructor" used to write back in the day. So did thousands of people. And if he's so knowledgable, he might also inform you that pieces evolved from these so-called bullshit tags. That's real.

Like Evol said, pieces and burners are 2 different things and I think you are talking out of your league by saying that tagging is wack and shit. That's just one aspect of writing, and an aspect that's very important. Just like doing throws, fills, etches, pieces, blackbooking, benching and anything else. Without one of these things, you're not really complete. And sometimes that suits people just fine.

Ground Control · 11-03-2003, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by talib kweli
Ok dude my bboying teacher came form the very begging of hip pop and man he said it himslef "BURNERS" ok and i think he knows what his saying becuase he knows a lot off ppl ok and he was a Great writing back in the day ok

no your teacher is wrong. misia is pretty much right with what he said. trust me on this, i've had the guys that started this shit tell me what misia just said. tell your teacher to learn his shit before he runs his mouth.

iomek · 11-03-2003, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by F Stylz
That's just one aspect of writing, and an aspect that's very important. Just like doing throws, fills, etches, pieces, blackbooking, benching and anything else.

whats benching? ive never heard of this before, mite come in hand some day, can any1 help me for fill my knowledge???

illiron · 11-03-2003, 04:14 PM

Talib man, you need to learn how to live graffiti trough yourself not trough this forum. This is a place where some ppl can exchange some info or help some newcomers who are new to can-holding.

As for the evolution of graffiti i can only say that it's normal. Burners and pieces are two different things, but nevertheless we shouldn't get into semantics it's toyish. You could post a pic of your tags so we can see how much effort have you put into it. There was a guy back in the day, he was called taki 183, i don't remember he ever did a piece or even a throwup but he was in the newyork times as a graffiti writer. I bet my handstyle is alot better than yours because i know what it means to mark your territory. I tag busses(lines that i use often), city trains, i did my school( a few big tags and alot of classroms, toilets, walls), tons of other public places. Tagging is about ppl knowing your name, imagine looking at a van gogh painting and not knowing who did it because it has no signature. More ppl are gonna remember your name if you make it look pretty on the bus glass. And graffiti is about fame, it's also about art, and it's about adrenaline.

Peace out...